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Labour Talk • stora enso dispute
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stora enso dispute

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 6:23 pm
by gbourque
why aren;t union members able to vote on any stora company proposals

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 6:29 pm
by NC
GB... I am going to TRY and move this message into the Stora area... I am not real good at this sort of thing, I leave it to the Tech guy but I am the only one around right now...

To answer your question, the Employer and the Union are the only parties allowed to discuss the employee's deals, you are not considered party to those parts of the process.

You MAY be able to apply for something called Intervenor Status, or Interested Party status but I would have to look into NS's particular laws.

What a stupid system eh, that won't let employees take part.. but that's what happens with "Collective Bargaining"

stora enso dispute

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 6:29 pm
by gbourque
Power rates are the problem , they have to be settled before a labour agreement can be reached

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 6:36 pm
by NC
I thought the Power rates issue was so far "into the machine" as to be loosing hope of resolution. Is there any hope of the Province rolling over and giving hand outs to some huge entity like Stora?

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 6:37 pm
by NC
By the way.. this post is now in forum/viewtopic.php?p=23985#23985

up the main page a bit, under "Stora Enso" & "General Discussions"

Re: stora enso dispute

Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 11:06 am
by StoraMan
Power rates are the problem , they have to be settled before a labour agreement can be reached
Actually its just the opposite. The power rate issue is far more complex and will take much longer than the labour agreement issue. The gov't won't anything more until they sign the contract, so if they don't sign in the next severl weeks, the entire place will be unnecessarily and permanently shutdown and dismantled. Not to diminish the uphill battle the local management have with the Power rate problem that the shareholders in Europe rightfully demand must be solved for them to make profit, or they will announce the closure.

Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 2:28 pm
by NC
The employees had better get their collective a**s into gear then and if the union won't talk to the employer the employees will have to change it so that THEY can talk to the employer.

Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 9:42 am
by gbourque
local 972 negotiating commitey are doing there best to reach a fair deal for its members ,they deserve a lot of credit for their efforts.

Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 1:52 pm
by effected1721
I think that if the union members don't soon agree to accept some sort of deal stora is going to pack up and leave, seriously wouldn't some sort of pay cheque be better then none at all, everyone else involved in the dispute seems to be willing to budge somewhat and give up some things they would like to have even the government is willing to be involved .. and another thing the mill closing isn't going to effect just the workers it is going to effect alot of people spreading out in all directions is it better to give in and settle for a 10 percent wage cut or to throw the economy of nova scotia down the drain and have a mill that supports alot of people all over the province in different ways close .. i don't think the union understands the lifes this mill effects and the devastation that will be caused to hundreds of people if they don't give a little and accept a contract ...

Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 3:53 pm
by thehawk
There hasn't been a strike at StoraEnso since the 70's. Why? Because the company was making money and would just about sign anything to keep the machinery running. Well, these are different times and any self-respecting company is not going to run at a loss forever.

Should not the union give now as they have taken in the past and live to fight another day when and if the industry is on a firmer footing?

Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 6:50 pm
by NC
Remembers folks YOU are the employees. it is your job to get people who work at your plant to start talking about accepting something the company is presenting.

For the union it is a no lose, either way they are in charge and gettin' paid.

You people have to take the reins away from the incompetent and get things on the right track. You need to talk together and make some plans.

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 7:45 am
by Admin1
Sorry if I am off base here but this story sounds so familar.

Once upon a time in a city far far away there was a Plant by the name of GAINERS. The owner of GAINERS had record losses and told the employees that they needed to take a pay cut for the plant to stay open. The Union stepped in and said no, you don't need to take wage cuts. The union and the owner argued back and forth and neither side would budge.
The union then told the owner that they were going on strike. The owner of GAINERS said if you go on strike I will close down the plant. All of the workers were scared at first and the union told them not to worry that there was no way the owner would close the plant. The union told them the owner was Bluffing.
A few months later every one went on strike. A month after that the plant closed. The union and the staff didn't believe it and felt the owner was still bluffing, The strike continued even though everyone had lost their jobs. The plant was closed and driving by every day for months you could see the people slowly disappearing off the lines as they realized it was the truth the plant was closed. That plant sat empty, weeds in the parking lot for about ten years. A contant reminder of how a union thinks it is all powerful. In reality that union cost thousands their jobs. I feel to this day if the employees had worked with the company through the hard times they would have prospered through it and the wages would have eventually gone up. Instead every one was jobless because a union wouldn't listen and believe what the company was saying.

Is this the same thing that is going on here?

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 8:18 pm
by NC
Admin... what you drove past for 10 years was what happens when a parasitic business union wins the fight.

Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 4:18 am
by StoraMan
local 972 negotiating commitey are doing there best to reach a fair deal for its members ,they deserve a lot of credit for their efforts.
That's the biggest joke I've heard on this forum so far. How do you know they're doing their best? Definitely not for a fair deal. They are still and will remain in complete "Power Bargaining" mode, as long as their current executive board is in place. They would not budge or negotiate at all when it came to the "pattern" economics, and all the things it contained like any kind of reform on contracting out language,etc. I know for a fact that they are going to continue to say "No" to everything else, and wait for Management to cave (which aint happening this time), or an Arbitrator to rule against them (aint happening either), or their national tells them to change position. That way they save face, condemn that they don't agree, it's not their fault, but they'll just have to accept it... OLD SCHOOL!
As far as the local issues, they won't budge on a lot of important issues that the company needs. These things like flexibility & seniority language changes are currently not modern work practices that other local unions have in their contracts. Stora Enso needs to modernize, but their local union will not. They aren't making any good effort to reach a fair deal on that either, so why would you give them any credit unless you are brainwashed into this kind of greedy union?

A bunch of retirees to be with nothing to personally lose (except 20% of their pension), making decisions on the futures of everyone else, including the 6000plus spin off or salary workers that are directly affected, but have no vote.

Saying to "No" to everything & waiting for someone else to make the move is a far cry from doing your best to reach a "fair" deal isn't it...? They deserve 0 credit, and especially since they are working hard to bankrupt the company.

Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 8:49 am
by NC
SM, the union's position will *never* change. You hit it flat on the head when you said that they will wait until someone else moves off the line and if it shuts down the plant then they will say that a great big foreign national company shut down little tiny Port Hawksbury with their evil ways.

As I said, the union will not lose. They will eat their own to make sure they do not lose, and to them losing is not making more money in dues next year than they made last year.

The point that is so often lost is that *the employees* are the union, not Ronnie Beaton and his buddies (sounds like a rock group). They are not the “union”, they are the “Union” (capital U). They are the guys that make the money and spend the employee’s dues, they are not the collective, *you* employees are.