Hey everyone. I got some time to do the latest update to the board software, but it meant that all the old modifications and styles wouldn't work anymore. So, here you have the newest iteration of LabourTalk. Please let me know by Private Message if you run into any issues with the new styling. Some new features on the board are:

  • Latest HTML5 Responsive Styling - You can now see a new, more modern styling on the board. Along with this, you can resize the browser to see the board change with it. The board is now functional on all sizes of screens, including your cell phone, table and desktop/laptop.
  • Post Sharing - Although you could previously, the new layout means the sharing icons are more visible on the lower right hand corner of each post. Click your favourite social media outlet to share the desired post with them.
  • Multiple Themes - Previously there was only one theme in an attempt to lower the workload when modifications were put in place. Fortunately, the new modification system is much simpler to implement and we now have multiple colour options for you to enjoy. You can change these from your User Control Panel under the Board Settings heading.
  • Announcements - Announcements can now be posted here (where you're seeing this one) and, in most cases, can be dismissed. To dismiss them, please click the "X" in the top right corner of this box.
  • Collapsing Categories - Categories, such as News & Announcements or Welcome (below), can be collapsed to clear up some of the clutter. This state should be maintained as long as you're logged in.

We hope you like the changes!

perception vs truth

Open Forum for discussing the challenges facing Stora
mr x
Rookie Poster
Rookie Poster
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:52 am

Postby mr x » Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:30 pm

No, I'll tell you what you see here. A lying Stora ENSO blackmailing the province. No evidence that they are losing money. Never was. There was so much bull in this thread is is unbelievable to go back and read it again. A lot of uneducated bums. STORAMAN, SAMMY, RETIRED - and all their bright ideas. They'll never be back because they will look like idiots. Which was the problem with this entire site. Blind faith in Stora and union bashing was encouraged, and evidence and intelligence were thrown out the window. The truth is coming out now. Stora isn't losing money and has been bargaining in bad faith.



User avatar
NC
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 3139
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:43 pm
Location: Vancouver

Postby NC » Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:41 pm

Mr X, are you really that much of a simpleton?

Obviously, yes. If you read carefully, and you may want to get someone to help you sound out the big words, you will see that NSP states the unaudited statements do not show losses at the current or proposed rates, and SEPH says they do. Was it not your camp that claimed the statements were fake and open to interpretation, or are you sort fo just skipping over that memory?

Do you think there may be some inclusion and exclusion issues in what the two sides are claiming as “costs” in the balance sheet?

You just go steady with your finger pointing, you may yet get your wish and have the whole thing shut down, then the CEP can claim victory – “See we told you all along they would shut it down”.

What an a**.


Find - Desiderata - read it

mr x
Rookie Poster
Rookie Poster
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:52 am

Postby mr x » Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:43 pm

Holy christ. You are the stupidest admin on any site I have ever seen. You don't even understand english. READ the article - it says audited. That's AUDITED. I claimed they were crap, and NSP backs it up. You're reply is just nonsensible. That's the memory I remember very well.

Exclusions/inclusions eh? What ever happened to all the irrefutable evidence put forth by storaman and lauded by you regarding auditing. Remember that, or is your memory out of whack? For a little reminder, it was put forth that Stora's numbers were not open to any interpretation. They were what they were, and that was it. Tools.

It has been your side pointing the fingers, and you did it once again here, wanting to blame the union. It's Stora bargaining in bad faith, and they will be to blame if the mill is shut down. Even private woodlot owners have gone on record saying that maybe it would be for the best because they are bleeding them to death.

And your whole post was just a diversion from the fact that you were and are wrong. And the other fools as well. And you are too gutless to own up to it. Or maybe it's because you can't read, because you obviously didn't read what NSP said.



User avatar
NC
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 3139
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:43 pm
Location: Vancouver

Postby NC » Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:02 pm

X... I'll type slower... the union said the financials were too easy to fake and too open to interpretation, could not be trusted. What happened to that?

The NSP is saying the financials do not show losses so you are leaping up and down claiming victory. This is the same document you and all the toadies said could not be trusted… right?

The NSP has great interest in those financials NOT showing loss. If you knew how to read a financial you would know that you can read them almost anyway you like. In fact, I recall one of the union supporters making exactly that statement.

Anyway, you have fun with your cause little man cause that’s all you’re gonna have left if you don’t start finding a way to make your plant a success.


Find - Desiderata - read it

User avatar
NC
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 3139
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:43 pm
Location: Vancouver

Postby NC » Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:10 pm

You quite obviously have no experience in how to play the game because all of these arguments are so simple-minded, it's hilarious. The only person you have called out is your self. The more you talk, the more clear it is the less you know. Let's blow some holes in your gibberish.

#1 You don't make it look like you are walking away, because that totally eliminates any leverage that you have. Stora isn't going to pack up and walk just like that regardless of their intentions. It doesn't work that way. And your thinking that it must really shows your ignorance and inexperience.

#2 Just because a contract is signed, it doesn't mean this mill will start up. Stora has been ramping up their demands steadily from the taxpayers and government, and those issues are far from settled with a long way to go. Other businesses and taxpayers outside Cape Breton will not be interested in another SYSCO disaster. The management is fighting hard; it is making confrontational demands, special power and tax rates for us or else.

#3 OK, it's time for you people to come back down to earth on the next issue. Offering the books is a sucker's game, and nobody takes the bait, because you can't win. It's kind of like the OJ glove thing. No matter what, you lose. That's why nobody ever does it, and it's not going to happen here, and nobody involved in a labor negotiation would ever recommend it. Your ignorance and inexperience shine through once again

#4 As far as the accountants go, you can hide all kinds of money this day and age, (hence the boom in forensic accounting). Man, that's the name of the game. Saying you have auditors means nothing. Ever hear of Enron? rotflmfao.

#5 When it is time to vote, there is no silence, no influence, no intimidation. Why can't you people acknowledge that? The 'silent' majority has spoken - 'TWICE'!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know you lost the argument when.lol
Now I remember your input... lots of accusations, no content. But hey, you don't need content to appear smart in your crowd.

What did you say here in point #3... hmmm? Sound familar... What other forums do you post on.. I would love to have a "chat" with you in a more public forum? Let me know, you can show the world how ignorant and stupid I am with a nice bright public forum discussion.

You are just too stupid to bother with, but since it's just you and me hammering away at each other in here, I'll play, it's fun.


Find - Desiderata - read it

mr x
Rookie Poster
Rookie Poster
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:52 am

Postby mr x » Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:37 pm

The NSP has great interest in those financials NOT showing loss. If you knew how to read a financial you would know that you can read them almost anyway you like. In fact, I recall one of the union supporters making exactly that statement.
What a joke. Way earlier in this thread you supported Storaman's posts claiming that the statements had to be correct because of some oxley whatever accounting rules. Now you totally contradict yourself and say you can read them any way you want. You change your tune every time you are made to look like the dummy you are. All you want to do is union bash.



mr x
Rookie Poster
Rookie Poster
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:52 am

Postby mr x » Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:42 pm

You quite obviously have no experience in how to play the game because all of these arguments are so simple-minded, it's hilarious. The only person you have called out is your self. The more you talk, the more clear it is the less you know. Let's blow some holes in your gibberish.

#1 You don't make it look like you are walking away, because that totally eliminates any leverage that you have. Stora isn't going to pack up and walk just like that regardless of their intentions. It doesn't work that way. And your thinking that it must really shows your ignorance and inexperience.

#2 Just because a contract is signed, it doesn't mean this mill will start up. Stora has been ramping up their demands steadily from the taxpayers and government, and those issues are far from settled with a long way to go. Other businesses and taxpayers outside Cape Breton will not be interested in another SYSCO disaster. The management is fighting hard; it is making confrontational demands, special power and tax rates for us or else.

#3 OK, it's time for you people to come back down to earth on the next issue. Offering the books is a sucker's game, and nobody takes the bait, because you can't win. It's kind of like the OJ glove thing. No matter what, you lose. That's why nobody ever does it, and it's not going to happen here, and nobody involved in a labor negotiation would ever recommend it. Your ignorance and inexperience shine through once again

#4 As far as the accountants go, you can hide all kinds of money this day and age, (hence the boom in forensic accounting). Man, that's the name of the game. Saying you have auditors means nothing. Ever hear of Enron? rotflmfao.

#5 When it is time to vote, there is no silence, no influence, no intimidation. Why can't you people acknowledge that? The 'silent' majority has spoken - 'TWICE'!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know you lost the argument when.lol
Now I remember your input... lots of accusations, no content. But hey, you don't need content to appear smart in your crowd.

What did you say here in point #3... hmmm? Sound familar... What other forums do you post on.. I would love to have a "chat" with you in a more public forum? Let me know, you can show the world how ignorant and stupid I am with a nice bright public forum discussion.

You are just too stupid to bother with, but since it's just you and me hammering away at each other in here, I'll play, it's fun.
This post doesn't even make sense. I stand by my post, and it's consistent with what I said. Stora has not been telling the truth about losing money, and they don't have the books to prove it. NSP backs it up. And my post was total content. All you and the bashers have been doing is making bogus accusations based on nothing, and now they lok like the s**t that they are.



User avatar
NC
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 3139
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:43 pm
Location: Vancouver

Postby NC » Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:35 am

Mr. X.. those other sites you post so much at? What are they?


Find - Desiderata - read it

mr x
Rookie Poster
Rookie Poster
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:52 am

Postby mr x » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:57 am

Mr. X.. those other sites you post so much at? What are they?
I don't understand your question. What are you referring to?



mr x
Rookie Poster
Rookie Poster
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:52 am

Postby mr x » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:37 am

A letter to the editor of the Halifax Herald August 29:

Let’s make a deal?

It appears likely that Stora will be getting a power deal at the expense of all consumers throughout the province.

As one of those consumers, I would be willing to pay a higher premium for the well-being of Cape Breton.

But … it depends. If the power subsidy were to be invested in Stora developing its own capacity to generate power, for itself and all power consumers, then yes. With all the biomass that comes from the harvest of Nova Scotia’s forest, they would be able to generate a huge amount of electricity.

If, however, the end result is simply to fatten the paycheque of Stora’s executives and shareholders – nah, count me out.

Let’s hear a plan from Stora before they collect a penny’s worth of power at public expense.

Al Farthing, New Glasgow

Pretty much the sentiment around here. Yet some peeps will still try to blame the union if things go sour. Same old story same old song and dance......



mr x
Rookie Poster
Rookie Poster
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:52 am

Postby mr x » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:49 am

To continue the sentiment, from Monday's Halifax herald:

According to Nova Scotia Power, large industrial users now pay about half the power rate paid by residential customers. On Aug. 22, NSP said giving Stora and Bowater a break on electricity could cost residential and business customers up to $200 million over the next five years.

The review board has asked NSP, Stora and an expert consultant to draw up power-rate proposals.

The board-appointed consultant has proposed reworking the last interruptible rate — which would give the paper companies a lower rate and larger credits for interruptible power — and suggested an additional measure that would slow future rate increases.

Eleven groups, including the provincial Department of Energy, have been granted formal intervener status and will have the right to make presentations at the public meetings, which will be held over four days and are expected to wrap up Friday.

Several Nova Scotia businesses have status at the hearing and are on record as not wanting to shoulder any costs of further subsidies to the paper mills.

In other words, time for Stora to stop blackmailing everybody it is in business with.



User avatar
NC
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 3139
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:43 pm
Location: Vancouver

Postby NC » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:02 pm

Perhaps you;re right X, time for Stora to just stop blackmailing. Shut `er down and let the province go on about its business. H ell, ya won't need all that power anymore, and you sure won't need executivesa and their high fallutin incomes, ha-yuck!

I hope you don't get what you wish for.


Find - Desiderata - read it

mr x
Rookie Poster
Rookie Poster
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:52 am

Postby mr x » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:21 pm

Power deal no deal?
NSP president says proposal from Stora, Bowater would force up rates
By JUDY MYRDEN Business Reporter

Nova Scotians will face higher power bills if two of the province’s biggest pulp and paper makers get a break on their electricity bills, Ralph Tedesco, Nova Scotia Power president and chief executive officer, warned Tuesday.

"For other customers very likely it would mean higher bills if Stora gets what it is looking for," Mr. Tedesco told reporters on the first day of a regulatory hearing in Halifax into new power rates for Stora Enso Port Hawkesbury and Bowater Mersey Pulp and Paper Company.

Mr. Tedesco said NSP’s other customers, including residential and business consumers, would be forced to make up a revenue shortfall of between $58 million and $200 million over the next five years if the Nova Scotia Utility and Review Board approves a discounted rate for Stora and Bowater.

"They (power rates) would go up several percentage points," said Mr. Tedesco.

The utility squared off against its two biggest customers before the board, which has set aside four days to hear evidence into three different proposals for setting a new power rate for NSP’s extra-large industrial customers.

The board asked NSP in March to submit a new proposal for its largest customers after it was determined that the old formula no longer worked. The board is expected to hand down a decision later this month.

Alan Richardson, NSP’s manager of customer service, testified the utility wants the two paper companies to remain as clients but not at the expense of its other 440,000 customers.

"We urge the board to avoid rates that unfairly favour certain few customers at the expense of all other Nova Scotians," Mr. Richardson told a three-member panel of the review board. "If an industry believes it needs special treatment, it should address that in other forums. Special treatment for select industries is a matter of public policy. They are not issues for rate making."

Stora Enso has said it needs a 15 per cent lower power bill. That would mean a $15-million saving on a bill that would have cost $100 million in 2006 if the mill had been operating. Stora has threatened to close the Port Hawkesbury operation, throwing 610 employees out of work, unless it gets a break on power costs.

Outside the hearing room, Stora’s and Bowater’s lawyer George Cooper argued his clients want to pay fair costs for electricity.

"Stora and Bowater are putting forward their position, that their proposals are cost based and therefore fair to them and others," he told reporters outside the hearing room.

Mr. Cooper said the "companies are seeking a rate that charges them the actual cost to serve them. No more, no less."

Consumer advocate John Merrick, a Halifax lawyer, opposes residential customers paying more for power at the expense of giving Stora and Bowater lower bills.

"What’s at stake is to ensure every customer, particularly the large customers, pay their fair share of the cost of any new rate that is developed," said Mr. Merrick. "To the extent that they are able to reduce their cost of energy, somebody else has to pick up the differential. There’s only a certain size of pie and if somebody diminishes their size of what that pie is, then somebody else has to take a bigger piece."

Mr. Merrick said the "elephant in the room" is Stora’s threat to close the Port Hawkesbury mill if it does not get a lower rate.

"This isn’t the place for that issue to be dealt with. It’s the function of the board to set rates according to correct rate-making principles. It’s not the function of the board to decide whether corporate citizens of this province get additional financial relief in order to stay."


Minas Basin Pulp and Power of Hantsport and 14 other companies oppose their competitors potentially getting a break on power bills when a new rate is set for January.

Scott Travers, Minas Basin president and chief operating officer, said all companies are being hit hard and that Nova Scotia industries already pay a lot for electricity compared to other jurisdictions.

Mr. Travers is also concerned about the possible impact on expanding Nova Scotia’s economy if a discounted rate is approved for only two customers.

"I am really concerned about present industry in this province, but beyond that how do we get to a point of growth in this province by attracting other industry to our province? We’re not doing it this way. If every new industry coming along is going to have to pay a higher rate because two industries got a better rate, now that’s unfair, that’s not a growth position for this province to be in."

The hearing continues today at the review board’s office.

( jmyrden@herald.ca)



StoraMan2
Rookie Poster
Rookie Poster
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 11:39 am

Postby StoraMan2 » Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:20 am

The NS Government needs to deregulate the power market. With a guaranteed return and no competition NSP has no incentive to increase their efficiency and lower production costs - they simply pass on costs to the consumer and they will continue to use any excuse to do so.

As for the financial statements you keep mentioning, both NSP and the Union have had the opportunity to see Stora's "books". Neither party has taken the company up on its offer to date - put up or shut up.

With regards to the power rate, it is far too complex an issue for most to understand (myself included) - leave it to the URB and their experts to determine and quit your whining.



User avatar
NC
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 3139
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:43 pm
Location: Vancouver

Postby NC » Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:45 am

Thanks for that, it was starting to get a bit "soapboxy"


Find - Desiderata - read it


Return to “General Discussion - Stora Enso”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests