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Drunk when signing a union card

For the Canadian Construction Sector
salt
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Drunk when signing a union card

Postby salt » Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:15 pm

Hello there, I have been a "lurker" for a long time but not ever posted. I requested this section because one of the callers to our site (LabourWatch) needs some help, but can’t afford a lawyer.

I know have seen that there is a lawyer on the site who often gives advice and direction. I am hoping that he can help with this.

In Ontario the labour Board is under the Dalton McGuinty Liberals and the Working Families Coalition. (Look that up on Google). Dalton and his team have been cozy with the Building Trades Unions in Ontario since before the 2003 election. Ever since the OLRB has become more biased in favour of construction unions vs non-construction cases.

So there are a bunch of guys that the union got boozed up and then like vultures got the cards done – these guys claim they don’t even know what afternoon and night it wall went down let alone what time they staggered home.

The required OLRB Notice to Employees Form C-33 – the employees say they never saw it. They sent in the A-76 – the Board form a party fills out to say what Board documents they posted, when and where. It only says the union’s A-71 was posted!! So the damn Board knew the C-33 was Missing In Action and did nothing – quel surprise!!

The employees are going to get stuff to us as they can and hope someone can help them file a Request for Reconsideration.

JJ or someone else, can you do some research on signing contracts as well as the issue of a missing or not posted C-33?



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Postby JJ » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:15 pm

i will see what i can find out about what happens if there is no C33 posted. the OLRB has a long history of being union friendly.



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Postby salt » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:37 am

Thanks very much ask me for what you need



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Postby JJ » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:27 pm

I found the OLRB's August 20 decision to unionize them and then looked at the other docs from the employees that Salt sent to me. most of my research and drafting is done.

I will post the relevant decisions and research on the weekend (I hope). i swapped emails with Salt and he is away but told me the employees know to check here this weekend to see the draft submission and OLRB Forms.

anyone with comments on the submission – email me here and same for the employees and i will finalize by Sunday night. GUYS: YOU MUST FILE BY 5 pm MONDAY Sept 20 or you are screwed!!

I can't post the documents here so I will email them to NC and he can get them to the site.

*** edited by NC to highlight an important looking part ***



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Postby NC » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:07 pm

Here's the documents. I don't want to get the file names wrong so I just left them as I got them.

Form A-49 (Updated Sept 18 = FINAL)
Form C-24 (Updated Sept 18 = FINAL )
Appendices (Updated Sept 19 = FINAL)
Submission (Updated again 12:45pm (LIUNA cocktail hour) Sept 20 = FINAL)



If anyone in this cross talk has any problems - email me.

nc@labourtalk.org

*** edited by NC on Sept 18 - 20 to link to revised documents ***
Last edited by NC on Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:13 am, edited 11 times in total.


Find - Desiderata - read it

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Postby NC » Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:44 am

Dear followers of this very cool exchange: I have received revised documents. I will edit my September 17 post above and put them in there so that the old documents are effectviely deleted - I would not like anyone to use them by mistake. I will add "(Updated Sept 18 )" to the wording so we are clear.

This is very interesting stuff, thank you for letting us follow along.


Find - Desiderata - read it

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Postby JJ » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:27 am

Guys, final submission now posted.

1. All 4 of you sign the A-49.
2. Fax to the Union and the Employer: ALL 4 pages of the A-49 (BUT the Certificate of Delivery section will be blank for now), the C-24, the Submission and the Appendices (1,2,3 version).
3. GET and KEEP fax confirmation pages of the above 2 faxes to the Union and the Employer.
4. Fill out the A-49 Certificate of Delivery with the time of the fax to the Union and the time of the fax to the Employer from the fax confirmation pages.
5. Fax to the OLRB the following: the fully completed A-49 (all 4 pages), the Submission and the Appendices, BUT NOT the C-24.
6. Keep a copy of the documents, especially the A-49 with the Certificate of Delivery for yourselves.
7. You MUST send the following documents by courier to the OLRB within 5 days: Original A-49 (all 4 pages with original signatures), Submission, Appendices AND put a clip or elastic around all four of these documents and then put some sort of piece of paper or post-it note that says "ORIGINAL" and attach it to this group of documents in side the package.
8. Send one COPY of all of these documents and stick a note in this group that says "COPIES".
9. Jam them all in one big envelope and send it by courier or hand deliver it - within 5 days.

*** Edited by NC because he read the OLRB Information Bulletin #19 ***



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Postby NC » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:40 am

I personally find the intoxication and "lack of capacity" to be interesting. The union brings liquor to some guys who were already drinking (a couple of cases) and when these guys have finshed what they had plus all of that, the union organizers take these guys out to a bar and pay for more liqour.

Then they get these guys to sign union cards (a contract). Some of them have submitted that they were so drunk they don't remember when they left the bar or how they got home.

Then to make a bad situation worse, the employer never posts a Form-33 that tells the employees that they are about to be unionized. So the time to act for them comes and goes and they don't even know it.

It will be very interesting to read the outcome of this on CANLii.


Find - Desiderata - read it

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Postby NC » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:02 pm

Sliding in under the wire... it's the underdog!!!

Lawyers tell me that the Labour Board chooches claim that all Labour Boards try to help unrepresented litigants like our new friends from Windsor. Just looking at the OLRB filing process for decerts, charges against unions and this case a "Request for Reconsideration" makes *my* head spin, let alone a blue-collar guy with a day job. (Thank you JJ)

So if you have been keeping up, the guy filing has to get the 31 pages out to everybody before 5:00pm EST. A twist finds that faxing costs a buck to $1.49 + the Hated Sales Tax. PER PAGE!!! These guys don't have that kind of cash on them.

So, I get an email to my handheld while I was at a customer of mine at 3:45 EST - it contained the 31 page document that had to be faxed - twice.

I have an internet fax number - I've never faxed *from* it though. I leave a meeting - no BS, I leave a meeting, download the full PDF to my computer and spend the next 1/2 hour figuring out how to fax from the internet site that hosts my fax machine. Meanwhile yelling into a meeting in the next room.

Now it's 4:10pm EST and I manage to get the thing sending but the employer fax rang busy forever but I made it at we got through for the guys. (it's here if you want to see it)

Now (4:20EST) I have to do the OLRB - before 5:00pm EST. Things don't go smoothly, (some of the forms have to be changed, I find out late - 4:43EST) but they eventually go. I make it...

...the fax tracking system on the site tells me the 31 pages started trasmitting at 4:48:09EST and it completed at, here's the chuckle... 4:59:47 – 13 seconds to spare. (Don't believe me... read it here)

I heard from JJ once that some Board, maybe Ontario actually ruled that a fax to their offices that was started before 5 pm but the last page did not make it by 5:00, the application was tossed out on that basis. No wonder there are so few examples of employees challenging LRB’s and unions!!

Now we watch CANLii to see what the next hoop from the OLRB is for these poor bastardos.


Find - Desiderata - read it

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Postby NC » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:16 pm

Also, jj sent me some of the precedents that were quoted in the submission, and I found some on my own. If anyone wants some of them, either post a request or just email me nc@labourtalk.org.

I may post them up but not tonight.


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Postby NC » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:23 am

It is past the time limit that the Board says they will respond by... have we heard anything, seen anything?


Find - Desiderata - read it

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Postby NC » Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:48 pm

Ask and ye shall receive.

OLRB Decision re Request for Reconsideration

Says the Vice-Chair: "...I failed, through inadvertance, to note that..."

The OLRB accepting responsability... hell is cooling.


Find - Desiderata - read it

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Postby JJ » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:21 am

Read the decision and saw your info about other supporters so incorporated that into a letter i encourage you to send to the board and the others ASAP.

i can't post it to the site but have emailed it to nc.



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Postby NC » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:28 am

Here's the letter for the guys to sign.

Letter Employees to OLRB

... and for our fans following the action, here's the Pinty's decision too.

Pinty's Delicious Foods


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Postby NC » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:55 am

I cannot offer much dialoge wth this, but will when I know more. I got it sent to me to post here, and very little else.

forms/Letter_Employees_to_OLRB_2010_10_20.pdf

As I said in an other thread, I think jj was on dial up because he was having trouble getting to the site. I OCR'd a fax from my internet account.

If I got anything wrong I will change it but the quality was really good.


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